“http://tinyurl.com/3dyw3v6”

“The continual talk of a vaccine for either badgers or cattle at this time is pure sophistry from people who do not really understand the difficulties involved; simply to try and continue to avoid the necessary cull of badgers. . The only 'vaccine' out there is a BCG with questionable effectiveness. . And anyway whilst there are still children in the world for whom the BCG is still useful, but are unable to get it, it is totally immoral to use what should be a POM V vaccine on untested animals.”

“"From The Wildlife Trusts Website, on why "Culling is not the cure". http://tinyurl.com/3aonm7x

The Wildlife Trusts today express disappointment at the Government's decision to pursue yet more trials of badger culling, as The Wildlife Trusts do not see culling as the solution to the problem of bovine tuberculosis (bTB).

To press ahead with these pilots ignores the main body of scientific evidence relating to culling*, which shows that at best it is ineffective, and at worst can exacerbate the problem.

The Wildlife Trusts acknowledge bTB is a significant problem that causes hardship for many in the farming community but believe there will be no winners from continuing to pursue badger culling as an option.

Paul Wilkinson, Head of Living Landscape for The Wildlife Trusts, said: "This issue demands a scientific and practical approach. The rationale for and practicality of any cull of native species needs to be extremely clear and well proven. In this case it is not.

"Today's announcement of trialling shooting of badgers in pilot areas is still based on the assumption that culling can be a viable solution.

The Wildlife Trusts strongly support the development of the bTB vaccine for cattle and an oral vaccine for badgers. It welcomes the Government's continued funding for this and urges that there is commitment to ensuring this concludes, and to subsequent wide-scale deployment. The leading conservation organisation sees vaccines as a critical 'tool in the toolkit' to help break the disease cycle and significantly reduce the levels of infection in cattle. It seeks a clearer timetable and strategy for vaccination to bring us closer the solution so urgently needed.

Paul Wilkinson continued: "There is already an injectable vaccine available for badgers, yet last year the Government cut funding for trialling it.

"Gloucestershire Wildlife Trust embarked on the first such injectable vaccination trial, of its own initiative, at the end of June. Looking at the deployment of injectable vaccines should help find wider solutions for dealing with this disease."

The Wildlife Trusts are keen for the farming community, conservation organisations and the Government to continue to work together to confront this disease.


*Scientific evidence: The Independent Scientific Group has given us the definitive scientific view that badger culling provides 'no meaningful contribution' and is 'not cost effective' as a control measure for combating bovine tuberculosis. The full report is available to download here.

Vaccine research: Defra has an active programme of research into vaccines for both cattle and badgers. The Wildlife Trusts have been supporting field trials of badger vaccines on nature reserves. Further details of work on vaccine development are available at: http://tinyurl.com/6etxhgz"
Report”

“No Mo; I am right. You are wrong, and I am supported by some of the finest, best informed scientists from around the world. . This is not a just British disease. . And Krebs was long ago discredited as just an exercise to find an excuse to avoid culling badgers. . That is clearly the only 'science' you have. . Culling badgers has already been proven to be the way to finally eradicate the disease in cattle. . Your trouble is Mo you are obsessed with the word/name 'Bovine tuberculosis'. . The actual truth is, even if we killed ALL the cattle, M.bovis would still be out there in the environment in any self-maintaining species. . Cattle were one, but they are captive, and we test and slaughter any reactors to get over it. . . Badgers have just been left to incubate it in ideal conditions.

I'm sorry Mo you are clearly really naive about TB and have not ever actually researched M.bovis, vaccines for tuberculosis, the BCG or anything else to do with this subject.

Bovine tuberculosis is a disease cattle get, but it never was first just a cattle disease. . . It came first from M.tuberculosis, the human strain. it most likely first appeared in other animals, vermin or the like that scavenged at mans' "dustbins", latrines or graves; not the cattle.

Please try and start learning Mo, and rid yourself of your political bias. I am not the ogre you seem to perceive me as. I just want a healthy badger population again.

http://tinyurl.com/63cep23

How TB Jumps From Humans to Wildlife – Vet Seeks Clues.

http://tinyurl.com/dhxvbk

Back in 1997, Dr. Jerome Harms, now Senior Scientist, Pathobiological Sciences at the School of Veterinary Medicine, University of Wisconsin-Madison, wrote.

http://tinyurl.com/3pr96zy

"Recently, there have been many outbreaks of M.bovis caused tuberculosis in humans especially HIV+ patients. Most have occurred in countries where M.bovis is endemic in the animal agriculture population. Multi-drug resistant strains of M.bovis are now appearing as well. The significance of this TB threat from M.bovis has not been taken as seriously as the threat from M.tuberculosis."

"However, the scientific and medical community must not ignore the potential of an M.bovis TB epidemic."

Again; quite prophetically, he wrote that back in 1997.

When asking for more information from him recently, Jerome just sighed off with, Good luck with bovis.

I have been researching this subject for many years now. . The evidence that culling is the only way to control bTB at this time is overwhelming. . Our best hope for a long term solution, vaccine/cure may yet turn out to involve bacteriophages.”

“By the way, what on earth is an "accredited whistleblower"? Where does a whistleblower go, and what qualifications does he need to gain accreditation in whistleblowing?”

“Charles, my opinion is based only on the science and I have that on my side. You didn't read the report, did you? It wasn't Krebs. Though even if it had been, you can't disprove it's findings by casting aspersions at the author. Seems everyone else has read it and arrived to the same conclusion. Everyone except you and the Tories that is, presumably because it might not support your preconceived ideas, and science and the right-wing have never really seen eye-to-eye.

Re vaccines - I don't know where you get your ideas from. Trials of BCG in cattle show that it was effective as long ago as 2007 (though sadly the Tories have now cancelled most of those trials). The reason the vaccine is not used is not because it doesn't exist, it is simply because vaccinated cows cannot be sold because the tests can't tell the difference between a live TB infection and the vaccine. Tellingly, the only reasons humans aren't the main vector in this scenario is because humans are routinely vaccinated.

But I digress. If you're determined to ignore the science, let's try logic instead. bTB is a cow disease that propagates from cow to cow. No one denies that it can also be spread from herd to herd by badgers. But can you give me one single example of a disease ever being eradicated by eliminating a secondary carrier? Without vaccination, we could kill every single badger in the country and cows would still get TB.

Sorry Charles, you're just wrong on this one.”

“@Viscount_V Thursday, July 21 2011, 11:16AM

Your ignorance I will tolerate Viscount_V, but your slander I will not. . I have never ever in my life been involved in fox hunting or any of the pursuits surrounding it.

If you do not withdraw your remarks I will be asking for your exclusion from these comments boards.

Just because you have no understanding of the subject of tuberculosis at any level, it is no excuse for your cretinous behaviour.”

“Tuberculosis is at a 30 year high in this country. . Cases of both M.bovis and M.Tuberculosis are now turning up regularly. . Some of them XDR & XAR. . This is not a game the BCG is all we have at the moment.

Producing a usable vaccine is an enormously complex task that scientists around the world have been struggling with now for many years. . Research will tell the thoughtful that the efficacy of Mycobacterium bovis bacillus Calmette-Guerin (BCG) vaccine against pulmonary tuberculosis varies enormously in different populations. The prevailing hypothesis attributes this variation to interactions between the vaccine and mycobacteria common in the environment, but the precise mechanism has so far not been clarified. . This is in humans! . Even before anyone begins to seriously try to find one for cattle. . . There is no alternative to a Badger cull in the foreseeable future. . The previous government's chief scientist clearly did not come to the conclusion he did lightly. I believe Setts really need to be sterilised, but I don't see how it will ever be possible to completely eliminate these bacterium. Some believe that TB is a much greater threat to mankind than terrorism even.

http://tinyurl.com/3e59l7u”

“That should read, by an 'un-politicised' scientist.”

“Well MoXXX; disappointed you probably are if you still believe Krebs was even remotely scientific. . Even Krebs and Bourne have at different times admitted it's shortcomings and accepted what needed to be done. . It was not scientific from when government stated they were not prepared to entertain the culling that was necessary. . Krebs was a politicised farce. . It is all you have. . The real science a and history has clearly, repeatedly shown what has to happen to achieve clean badgers and cattle again.

This is more of the 'real' science as posted by an politicised scientist. And it's hardly 'anecdotal' when it's from an accredited whistleblower.

'Spoligotypes'

"If bTB were mostly spread by cow to cow contact, you'd expect the geographical pattern of spoligotypes to be an ever-changing mosaic, and with the extremely aggressive culling of infected cows that is now done, you'd expect one or two spoligotypes of bTB to have gone extinct from chance alone. If on the other hand bTB in cows was mostly caused by spread from a fairly static reservoir host to cows, then you'd expect the geographical pattern of spoligotypes to stay constant.


The latter pattern is what is seen; badgers are the major reservoir host of bTB, and it is only by aggressively culling badgers everywhere to limit their spread, and by culling to local extinction in bTB hotspot areas that this disease is going to be brought under control. Subsequent to bTB being brought under control, there needs to be an ongoing low-level cull of badgers to keep their numbers down, since a high badger population is always going to pose a threat of bTB epidemic.

Now, I realise that my comments here will offend a lot of people; quite frankly I don't much care. This is reality; it is cold, hard and not very nice but this is how it is going to have to be to conquer bTB. If you don't like that, perhaps you'd like to cease all cattle farming in Britain, and watch our farming join all the other now-defunct industries we used to have, and don't anymore."

You'll need a lot more than just indignation I'm afraid Mo.”